#1 [00:16] * Keltinray [Keltinray@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#2 [00:20] * andrewkm [andrewkm@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#3 [00:26] * Epicofficial [Epicofficial@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#4 [00:27] <Epicofficial> hello there.
#5 [00:58] * rmsy [rmsy@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#6 [01:15] * w [w@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#7 [01:33] * Vorg [Vorg@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#8 [01:34] <Vorg> anyone hear of problems with furnaces not liting in worlds created with newest version?
#9 [01:37] * iChaos [iChaos@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#10 [01:40] <Vorg> nvm
#11 [01:40] <Vorg> nvm
#12 [01:56] * Vorg [Vorg@notlogged] has left #minecrafthelp
#13 [02:01] * w [w@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#14 [02:04] * xTwilight [xTwilight@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#15 [02:09] * PitTux_64 [PitTux_64@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#16 [02:13] * Halicarnassus [Halicarnassus@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#17 [02:14] * GreyBot [GreyBot@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#18 [02:14] * GreyVulpine [GreyVulpine@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#19 [02:15] <Wug> GreyVulpine interderp
#20 [02:17] * GreyVulpine mrahs
#20 [02:17] * Wug wehs
#20 [02:17] <Wug> I need to reconnect
#21 [02:18] <Wug> I did a cap req ...
#22 [02:18] <Wug> its like I'm stuck in psychic mode
#23 [02:18] <Wug> I get all these extra notices ~,~
#24 [02:19] <GreyVulpine> I think that may be due to #risucraft
#25 [02:20] <Wug> indirectly yes
#26 [02:20] <Wug> I noticed you had reconnected because I got GARBAGE: GreyBot!~Grey@c-76-122-172-196.hsd1.mi.comcast.net ACCOUNT GreyBot
#27 [02:20] <GreyVulpine> O.o
#28 [02:21] * hachque [hachque@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#29 [02:22] * Wug hammers on mollstam
#29 [02:22] <Wug> fix the mitm exploit
#30 [02:23] <GreyVulpine> They know about it
#31 [02:23] <Wug> yeah, I know. I've been working with grum to design a resistant protocol actually
#32 [02:23] <Wug> do you crypto?
#33 [02:24] <GreyVulpine> Nope.
#34 [02:24] <Wug> blugh. need people to sanity check
#35 [02:25] <Wug> but trollstam handles the auth servers, which might have to be updated for a patch to be effective
#36 [02:25] <ShaRose> Wug grum is actually looking at it now?
#37 [02:25] <Wug> ShaRose: between the thing we came up with and something someone else did which is a bit less drastic
#38 [02:25] <Wug> https://gist.github.com/d91b64186054e264d847
#39 [02:26] <Wug> the note mentions that the auth server would not need to be modified, and if thats the case there is a practical attack against it
#40 [02:26] <Wug> mitm can send their own public key, decrypt the private key, and then brute force a new shared key that causes a hash collision
#41 [02:27] <Wug> decrypt the shared key*
#42 [02:27] <Wug> for a 32 bit hash this doesnt entail doing that much work
#43 [02:27] <ShaRose> there's always SHA512
#44 [02:27] <ShaRose> :P
#45 [02:27] <ShaRose> or rather
#46 [02:27] <ShaRose> SHA384
#47 [02:28] <Wug> that would require sending a hash larger than 32 bits
#48 [02:28] <Wug> which would mean modifying the auth server
#49 [02:28] <Wug> 64 bits would be more than enough probably
#50 [02:28] <GreyVulpine> Add in biometric voice recognition, toll free numbers across the world
#51 [02:28] <Wug> it would be 4 billion times harder to generate a collision
#52 [02:28] <Wug> GreyVulpine: you keep suggesting that
#53 [02:28] <Wug> :S I somehow think that's less practical
#54 [02:28] <GreyVulpine> Pfft
#55 [02:29] <ShaRose> imo this one is more complex and weaker and only exists to make it so the login server doesn't need to be modified
#56 [02:29] <ShaRose> basic rsa signing is nothing more than a power operation
#57 [02:29] <|Kiikun|> nah. just use government-supplied ID numbers like drivers license
#58 [02:29] <Wug> ShaRose: its weaker because of the aforementioned vulnerability, which could be fixed with a larger hash
#59 [02:29] <|Kiikun|> thats never going to cause issues anywhere :D
#60 [02:30] <GreyVulpine> Mojang supplied RSA dongles
#61 [02:30] <Wug> it is otherwise cryptographically sound
#62 [02:30] <ShaRose> Wug which would require modifying the server :P
#63 [02:30] <ShaRose> w/e I'll send them both to a buddy of mine for verification if you want
#64 [02:30] <Wug> yeah, but in this case, its a fairly trivial modification
#65 [02:30] <Wug> go ahead
#66 [02:31] <Wug> I rather like that solution for its simplicity
#67 [02:31] <Wug> that and there isnt really a good way to sign certificates in pure java
#68 [02:31] * Wug prods trollstam
#68 [02:38] <ShaRose> Wug he found issue with both your new one and the old one :P
#69 [02:38] <Wug> who, mollstam?
#70 [02:38] <Wug> or the guy
#71 [02:38] <ShaRose> the guy
#72 [02:39] <Wug> what does he say
#73 [02:39] <ShaRose> verifying stuff
#74 [02:39] <Wug> can you get him here
#75 [02:39] <ShaRose> yeah specifically said that contact with trent was over ssl and he's happier with it but the first one still overuses hashes for no reason
#76 [02:40] <Wug> the first one as in the one we cooked up?
#77 [02:40] * JNZ [JNZ@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#78 [02:40] <JNZ> Sup.
#79 [02:40] <Wug> chillin
#80 [02:40] <Wug> ShaRose: :S do you have a link to it
#81 [02:41] <ShaRose> Wug meat JNZ
#82 [02:41] <ShaRose> meet
#83 [02:41] * ShaRose is tired
#83 [02:41] <Wug> JNZ: HURRLO
#84 [02:41] <Wug> ShaRose: quick link me to the one we made
#85 [02:41] <ShaRose> http://pastebin.com/NyPSyMf0 to verify this is what I linked him at first
#86 [02:41] <Wug> I dont have it open, I did it on my other computer
#87 [02:41] <ShaRose> both protocols included
#88 [02:42] * Calinou [Calinou@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#89 [02:42] <JNZ> Alright so, both protocols are silly crazy.
#90 [02:42] <JNZ> http://pastie.org/3808940
#91 [02:43] <Wug> JNZ: cant send the io
#92 [02:43] <Wug> ip*
#93 [02:43] <JNZ> Why?
#94 [02:43] <Wug> it makes local play impossible
#95 [02:43] <Wug> this is one of the issues we had to work around
#96 [02:43] <JNZ> Make a special rule for it.
#97 [02:43] <ShaRose> JNZ you know full well how minecraft's protocol works :P
#98 [02:43] <JNZ> If a local client connects, simply allow them.
#99 [02:43] <JNZ> Or check a local users list.
#100 [02:44] <Wug> that sounds ..
#101 [02:44] <JNZ> It's fine, since it's local data. Local as in, machine local. Not network local.
#102 [02:44] <Wug> yeah, but local networks wont work either
#103 [02:44] <JNZ> How so?
#104 [02:45] <Wug> if you tried to connect to 192.168.1.100 or something
#105 [02:45] <Wug> auth server cannot verify anything
#106 [02:45] <JNZ> Alright, in that case you'll need a special way to handle that.
#107 [02:45] <ShaRose> exceptions are bad :P
#108 [02:45] <Wug> especially nested ones
#109 [02:45] <JNZ> Essentially you can build a list of local users and passwords, and do a simple challenge authentication against the password.
#110 [02:46] <ShaRose> the server won't have a copy of that
#111 [02:46] <ShaRose> let alone it not having an ssl cert unless it's self signed
#112 [02:46] <ShaRose> tbh the second protocol, I just wanted to use http and encrypt the password with trent's private key
#113 [02:46] <JNZ> That's a bad idea.
#114 [02:47] <Wug> trents private key is never exposed to anything ever
#115 [02:47] <JNZ> You can execute a chosen plaintext attack pretty easily, with only the public key.
#116 [02:47] <ShaRose> public*
#117 [02:47] <ShaRose> sorry
#118 [02:47] <ShaRose> and you could include a nonce
#119 [02:47] <JNZ> Especially if the password is short. It gives you an oracle.
#120 [02:47] <JNZ> And a nonce doesn't help you, especially if you can get at it.
#121 [02:47] <ShaRose> suppose
#122 [02:48] <Wug> anyway
#123 [02:48] <JNZ> What I'd do is SHA-512 the password with a large salt. Or even, to make things a lot better....
#124 [02:48] <Wug> assuming that tracking the server's ip is impossible
#125 [02:48] <fesnter> take the black
#126 [02:48] <Wug> how would you amend your protocol
#127 [02:48] <JNZ> Generate a nonce, HMAC-SHA512 it using the password for the key and then hashing the nonce. Encrypt that using the public key.
#128 [02:49] <JNZ> Send that over unencrypted (implicitly authenticated) HTTP
#129 [02:49] <Wug> JNZ: also, client login to minecraft and to server are two seperate events
#130 [02:49] <ShaRose> ^
#131 [02:49] <JNZ> I'm aware.
#132 [02:49] <JNZ> So, what are you developing? A special login server for Minecraft?
#133 [02:49] <Wug> your protocol proposition does not take that into account
#134 [02:49] <JNZ> The one on pastebin does.
#135 [02:49] <ShaRose> JNZ no, we are preparing a new login protocol. for the whole game.
#136 [02:50] <ShaRose> as in it'd hopefully be official
#137 [02:50] <Wug> we're trying to find a working alternative for the existing one
#138 [02:50] <JNZ> Yeah then you need to change the entire way things work.
#139 [02:50] <Wug> not necessarily. the first method of http://pastebin.com/NyPSyMf0 would be secure enough
#140 [02:50] <JNZ> You can keep the whole... centralized authentication system
#141 [02:50] <ShaRose> what about using the second protocol and using the nonce hash system you used JNZ?
#142 [02:51] <Wug> using even a 64 bit hash it would be safe enough
#143 [02:51] <JNZ> .... not really
#144 [02:51] <Wug> you'd have to find a collision on a 64 bit hash in 6 seconds
#145 [02:51] <Wug> which is the login timeout
#146 [02:51] <JNZ> How are you taking into account duplex communication? Collisions? Message authentication?
#147 [02:51] <JNZ> Bit flipping attacks?
#148 [02:51] <fesnter> this key will lead you to compiled code and ddos prot
#149 [02:51] <JNZ> There's tons of things that can be done during the actual communication that can break your stuff.
#150 [02:51] <fesnter> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Afc2uzw4g
#151 [02:52] <Wug> breaking things is not an issue
#152 [02:52] <JNZ> Break the security, I mean.
#153 [02:52] <Wug> any mitm attack can send random invalid dat
#154 [02:52] <JNZ> A MITM attack isn't the only thing you need to worry about.
#155 [02:52] <JNZ> And that's not really the only thing it can do.
#156 [02:52] <Wug> the only effective attack is a mitm attack
#157 [02:52] <Wug> as of right now
#158 [02:52] <JNZ> You can deterministcally alter data.
#159 [02:52] <fesnter> mcis falvor the the year
#160 [02:53] <Wug> we dont even care if the mitm can read the data going back and forth
#161 [02:53] <Wug> only issue is if they can change it to do useful things
#162 [02:53] <JNZ> That doesn't make sense.
#163 [02:53] <fesnter> ^
#164 [02:53] <ShaRose> JNZ pretty much Wug is looking exclusively to break that attack I showed you on the titanpad
#165 [02:53] <Wug> they would have to forge chat packets, which would be difficult to do with any level of secure encryption
#166 [02:54] <JNZ> ShaRose: It's irrelevant, the entire protocol is silly.
#167 [02:54] <JNZ> Wug: Depends on the attacker. You're making assumptions without evidence.
#168 [02:54] <Wug> JNZ: I wrote an an attack on the current protocol
#169 [02:54] <Wug> 6 months ago
#170 [02:54] <fesnter> "which would be difficult" not impossible, in range of this newb
#171 [02:54] <Wug> it was probably one of the first
#172 [02:54] <JNZ> I've published attacks on several systems.
#173 [02:54] <Wug> and perhaps to date the only undetectable one
#174 [02:54] <JNZ> And most of them are not because of silly mistakes
#175 [02:55] <JNZ> They're because of complex interactions
#176 [02:55] <fesnter> ./me understands
#177 [02:55] <JNZ> Silly mistakes like crappy salts and bad algorithms are limited usually to widely adopted crapware (2002 php forum stuff)
#178 [02:56] <JNZ> So, you're accounting for those, which is fine and all.
#179 [02:56] <JNZ> But not so much for the whole... I can flip bits around and change things and probably defeat your system because of a check you forgot to make because you didn't expect a specific attack
#180 [02:57] <Wug> I very much doubt you'd be able to flip random bits and cause a 12 byte movement packet to morph into a chat packet containing the string "/op <user>"
#181 [02:57] <JNZ> Most likely not.
#182 [02:57] <Wug> like I said
#183 [02:57] <Wug> any generic mitm can randomly garble data
#184 [02:57] <JNZ> but I could probably alter the target user of a similar packet.
#185 [02:58] <JNZ> Say, with one byte changed.
#186 [02:58] <JNZ> And again, random bits... that's not how it works. It's deterministic and for structured data, like your packets.
#187 [02:58] <JNZ> If I know a format and a cipher used, I can probably do it if it has insufficient authentication for every single message
#188 [02:58] <ShaRose> To be fair JNZ that's an issue with the stream cipher used, not the login protocol
#189 [02:58] <JNZ> or a lack of duplex support
#190 [02:58] <Wug> the problem is of course, that you have no knowledge of the data being sent
#191 [02:58] <JNZ> ShaRose: Actually it's a problem with the application of the stream cipher.
#192 [02:58] <JNZ> Much like WEP is insecure but RC4 is fine... it's a problem with usage.
#193 [02:59] <ShaRose> mmm
#194 [02:59] <Wug> you dont know what data goes over the line until it gets to you
#195 [02:59] <Wug> which makes attacks based on known data impossible
#196 [02:59] <JNZ> I said attacks based on structure.
#197 [02:59] <JNZ> Not data.
#198 [02:59] <Wug> can you present an example
#199 [03:00] <JNZ> Say you have chat packets which contain a header. That gives it structure.
#200 [03:00] <Wug> it has a 1 byte header and then a string
#201 [03:00] <Wug> you have no way of knowing if a packet is a chat packet or not
#202 [03:00] <JNZ> Then neither does the server.
#203 [03:00] <Wug> the server can decrypt it and read the data
#204 [03:00] <Wug> as the man in the middle, you cant
#205 [03:01] <JNZ> You can guess at the contents pretty easily.
#206 [03:01] <Wug> the client sends a continuous stream of other packets of varying sizes
#207 [03:01] <Wug> the idle rate is about 10 kilobytes per second
#208 [03:01] <JNZ> Even better, you get more blocks.
#209 [03:02] <JNZ> You can build up databases and make relationships and use algorithms to determine where structures exist.
#210 [03:02] <JNZ> They do persist through the cipher, that is why we can attack messages without knowing their contents but understanding a bit of a structure.
#211 [03:02] <JNZ> From there, if your messages are unauthenticated.... you can flip stuff around and play with it.
#212 [03:02] <Wug> like I said
#213 [03:02] <JNZ> And if you're in the game, observing the results, it's even easier.
#214 [03:02] <Wug> any man in the middle can garble the data
#215 [03:02] <JNZ> They can garble it into a useful thing, yes.
#216 [03:03] <Wug> no, they cant
#217 [03:03] <Wug> once the server resends things to the clients
#218 [03:03] <JNZ> Well, you seem to think they can't.
#219 [03:03] <Wug> its already passed over the line and isnt attackable
#220 [03:03] <JNZ> If you chat on IRC long enough under a particular cipher, and I see the output, I can probably discover some attacks which let me craft messages.
#221 [03:04] <JNZ> So, sitting in a game with a chat system is no different.
#222 [03:04] <JNZ> You can line up public data with private data.
#223 [03:04] <JNZ> If you're a man in the middle, you can inspect sequence numbers on the network and really get exact measurements.
#224 [03:04] <Wug> have you ever done that
#225 [03:04] <JNZ> Timestamps and the like
#226 [03:04] <JNZ> Yes.
#227 [03:04] <Wug> provide an example
#228 [03:04] <Wug> something nontrivial
#229 [03:05] <JNZ> I compromised a Chinese BGP and routed data from a specific server through a server of mine. I was able to dump all of the packets.
#230 [03:05] <Wug> what sort of encryption was used
#231 [03:05] <Wug> and what sort of identity verification existed
#232 [03:05] * Tminus [Tminus@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#233 [03:06] <Wug> or was this a typical man in the middle on a system with no identity verification
#234 [03:06] <Wug> which is as easy as setting up encryption on both sides and parroting packets
#235 [03:06] <JNZ> Well, I didn't go further than inspecting data. But what I was doing is checking if a server was remotely logging to another network and what actions it was taking. The remote logging was done over SSL
#236 [03:06] <JNZ> It uses RC4 and MD5. I was able to detect if my IP was in the logs (it was)
#237 [03:06] <Wug> so you didnt modify the stream to change its behavior.
#238 [03:07] <JNZ> Correct. Leaking information is there regardless.
#239 [03:07] <Wug> but we dont care if the stream is readable
#240 [03:07] <Wug> we only care that it is not modifiable
#241 [03:07] <JNZ> The problem isn't the readability. Readability only leaks if the algorithms truly suck.
#242 [03:07] <JNZ> It's your interactivity and lack of message authentication.
#243 [03:07] <ShaRose> if it's readable there's a chance you can modify it to read as something else
#244 [03:07] <JNZ> Your lack of multiple keys for incoming and outgoing and separate keys for authentication
#245 [03:07] <Wug> you just told me that no, you have not performed an attack like what you speak of
#246 [03:08] <JNZ> Wug: Because it's really illegal and I don't feel like getting killed by a Chinese spy.
#247 [03:08] <Wug> let me reiterate the current problem
#248 [03:08] <JNZ> I can likely set up something on my network, simulating your situation, and carry it out just fine.
#249 [03:08] <Wug> a man in the middle attack is exceedingly trivial
#250 [03:08] <Wug> there is no encryption
#251 [03:08] <JNZ> It depends, but alright.
#252 [03:08] <Wug> and the only identity verification is easy to fool
#253 [03:08] <Wug> so.
#254 [03:08] <JNZ> You can carry out a MITM with an encrypted session.
#255 [03:09] <Wug> I reiterate one final time
#256 [03:09] <JNZ> If they don't authenticate each message, you can really screw things around and craft new commands.
#257 [03:09] <Wug> I dont care if they garble the data
#258 [03:09] <JNZ> You don't care if they modify it into real working commands? Alright, then no problem.
#259 [03:09] <Wug> as long as they cannot write meaningful things
#260 [03:09] <JNZ> They can.
#261 [03:09] <JNZ> That's the thing.
#262 [03:09] <Wug> its as statistically unlikely as colliding hashes
#263 [03:09] <JNZ> No it's not.
#264 [03:10] <JNZ> Hashes are generally not algebraic.
#265 [03:10] <JNZ> AES is.
#266 [03:10] <Wug> then we'll use something thats not aes
#267 [03:10] <JNZ> Like what?
#268 [03:10] <Wug> you mentioned rc4
#269 [03:10] <Wug> theres that
#270 [03:10] <ShaRose> rc4 is weaker :P
#271 [03:10] <Wug> there are so many algorithms to choose from its ridiculous
#272 [03:11] <JNZ> RC4 is different, but it's weaker, yeah.
#273 [03:11] <JNZ> Wug: Why not just add authentication?
#274 [03:11] <JNZ> It solves the problem.
#275 [03:11] <Wug> rc4 has a specific vulnerability involving poorly random data at the beginning of the stream
#276 [03:11] <JNZ> That's not the only thing.
#277 [03:12] <JNZ> What I would do is...
#278 [03:12] <Wug> see also
#279 [03:12] <JNZ> Agree on a key somehow. Authenticate the exchange. You can do it over SSL and not authenticate the exchange. But somewhere in there, get a key.
#280 [03:12] <JNZ> Then agree on three more.
#281 [03:12] <Wug> WOW you just explained to me the protocol we came up with
#282 [03:13] <JNZ> So you have one client encryption key, one client authentication key, one server authentication key, and one server encryption key
#283 [03:13] <Wug> care to read it again
#284 [03:13] <JNZ> That way you don't get collisions in messages or have to deal with back and forth IVs
#285 [03:13] <Wug> in both of the protocol possibilities we have been working with we use the authentication server to authenticate clients
#286 [03:13] <JNZ> And then the separate auth keys are just for safety. It's a good idea to use a key for a particular purpose.
#287 [03:13] <JNZ> You'r
#288 [03:14] <JNZ> You're misunderstanding message and endpoint authentication
#289 [03:14] <Wug> one way uses certificates, and the other involves exchanging hashes of certain intermediate data
#290 [03:14] <JNZ> Each message needs to be done like so: ENCRYPT(message || HMAC(message))
#291 [03:14] <JNZ> Otherwise you run the risk of bit flipping attacks, other modifications, etc.
#292 [03:15] <Wug> 100% of the bit flipping attacks I have read about were purely theoretical
#293 [03:15] <JNZ> When using a good mode in the cipher, like CBC or ICM or something like GMAC, you will end up cascading any modifications into the MAC.
#294 [03:15] <JNZ> So to carry out a real attack on a system designed this way, you need to 1.) Know exactly how the flip will cascade and 2.) find a particular flip with a specific behavior resulting in a specific collision on the hash function used for the MAC
#295 [03:15] <JNZ> Those are impossible assuming secure algorithms.
#296 [03:16] <DiskDaemon> Sometimes near-perfect security is less preferable to other factors, but this has been interesting to go through
#297 [03:16] <Wug> the specific issue here is performance
#298 [03:16] <JNZ> Performance isn't a problem even with the scheme I described.
#299 [03:17] <JNZ> You can get well over 100 MB/s on a P3
#300 [03:17] <JNZ> Ok maybe I lied. Try like 100 MB/s on a modern dual core.
#301 [03:17] <JNZ> But still, that's faster than your network or disk access.
#302 [03:17] <JNZ> Assuming you have only a dual core, it's likely not your bottleneck.
#303 [03:18] <JNZ> I have a VPN concentrator that uses 8192 bit RSA keys. That's really freaking slow, so you would think.
#304 [03:18] <JNZ> We can handle 1000 authentications per second.
#305 [03:18] <ShaRose> JNZ how many rsa signatures do you think a decent server could pump out
#306 [03:18] <JNZ> Depends on the modulus size, ShaRose
#307 [03:18] <ShaRose> just signatures, 2048 bits at a guess
#308 [03:18] <JNZ> Probably quite a few.
#309 [03:18] <ShaRose> half a million auths a minute doable?
#310 [03:18] <JNZ> What's that per second?
#311 [03:19] <JNZ> 8000?
#312 [03:19] <JNZ> Probably with 2048 bits, yeah
#313 [03:19] <JNZ> Pretty easy I'd say.
#314 [03:19] <ShaRose> mmm
#315 [03:19] <ShaRose> that's literally the thing grum was held up on for the certificate protocol
#316 [03:20] <Wug> the issue there is entropy
#317 [03:20] <ShaRose> imo it's more likely that looking up the user probably would take longer than signing some data
#318 [03:20] <JNZ> RSA signing is pretty fast for 2048 bits.
#319 [03:20] <JNZ> Wug: How do you figure?
#320 [03:20] <JNZ> Signing requires no entropy draw.
#321 [03:20] <JNZ> Well, very little.
#322 [03:20] <Wug> generating 8000 keys a second would take a lot
#323 [03:20] <ShaRose> GENERATING 8000 keys a second would yeah
#324 [03:20] <Wug> clients would do it to save on that but
#325 [03:20] <Wug> then you have the issue of bandwidth
#326 [03:21] <ShaRose> doing 8000 power operations a second? ehhh not so much
#327 [03:21] <ShaRose> which is really all signatures are
#328 [03:21] <JNZ> Uh, you never said generating keys
#329 [03:21] <JNZ> You said signing data.
#330 [03:21] <ShaRose> especially with a fast bignum lib
#331 [03:21] <Wug> the extra overhead of sending and receiving the extra data could be prohibitive
#332 [03:21] <JNZ> Avoid key generation. Get CSRs from the clients and sign them once you authenticate them.
#333 [03:21] <JNZ> Wug: It's a couple kilobytes. Your idle is higher.
#334 [03:21] <Wug> currently, an exchange is maybe 2 or 3 hundred bytes
#335 [03:21] <ShaRose> JNZ which is what the earlier auth was
#336 [03:21] <ShaRose> :D
#337 [03:22] <Wug> JNZ: yeah, thats a 500% increase
#338 [03:22] <JNZ> You said your idle was 10 KB/s. Your active would be like 14 KB/s
#339 [03:22] <ShaRose> Wug certificates also remove the need for the client and server handshaking for every join
#340 [03:22] <JNZ> And only for a burst
#341 [03:22] <JNZ> How is that a 500% increase?
#342 [03:22] <ShaRose> JNZ I think he's talking about the auth server now
#343 [03:22] <Wug> at 8000 requests a second, thats 200 megabits of throughput
#344 [03:23] <Wug> not undoable but kind of a lot
#345 [03:23] <JNZ> Which is nothing for that kind of volume.
#346 [03:23] <ShaRose> considering they are using amazon it's beyond doable
#347 [03:23] <JNZ> The VPN concentrator right now is pegging at 150ish mbit/sec and how many users are on? Like 4.
#348 [03:23] <ShaRose> think, the current system is still handling 8000 mysql lookups a second too
#349 [03:23] <JNZ> So, 8000 at 400 mbit/sec is fine
#350 [03:24] <JNZ> Although different systems, still. You've got a good ratio.
#351 [03:24] <JNZ> Your TCP overhead is going to be the most prohibitive thing, I swear.
#352 [03:24] <JNZ> HTTP and all.
#353 [03:24] <JNZ> It'll be a significant contributor, not a problem, I should say.
#354 [03:24] <ShaRose> actually at least with the first one since it's only one handshake couldn't you use udp for it?
#355 [03:25] <JNZ> Dunno. I'm bored now :p
#356 [03:25] <Wug> JNZ: rewrite your protocol
#357 [03:25] <Wug> minus ip address tracking
#358 [03:25] <JNZ> Eh. I thought you had it all figured out.
#359 [03:25] <JNZ> With your "I don't care if it's modified" thing.
#360 [03:25] * truebattleaxe [truebattleaxe@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#361 [03:26] <truebattleaxe> i just downloaded minecraft for pc and registered my name but i have not received my verification email what do i do
#362 [03:26] <JNZ> Wug: If you want something really drafted and you will plug a project of mine, I'll get a few people working on a real solution for you folks.
#363 [03:27] <JNZ> So, advertising in exchange for a good $40,000 scheme design.
#364 [03:27] <truebattleaxe> i just downloaded minecraft for pc and registered my name but i have not received my verification email what do i do
#365 [03:27] <Wug> JNZ: its cryptography
#366 [03:27] <Wug> we're searching for any secure alternative
#367 [03:27] <Wug> I'm not attached to my solution just because I wrote it
#368 [03:27] <JNZ> Alright.
#369 [03:28] <Wug> if you come up with something better then we'll consider it
#370 [03:28] <GreyVulpine> truebattleaxe - Did you have the verification email resent? Did you check your spam folder?
#371 [03:28] <JNZ> Well, like I said, I'm open to developing one for you guys in exchange for some advertising.
#372 [03:28] <JNZ> I do this professionally, I should mention that.
#373 [03:28] <Wug> I'm not mojang staff
#374 [03:28] <JNZ> Ah, well. Plug it somewhere.
#375 [03:28] * `Lee` [`Lee`@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#376 [03:28] <JNZ> I don't care, frankly. But I'd need to know your requirements. Brief stuff like what your restrictions are. I mean, I'm open to doing it for free because I have the time.
#377 [03:29] <truebattleaxe> i can't play since i haven't received my verificatino email what should i do
#378 [03:29] <JNZ> I just can't come up with something at midnight, I'm sure you understand :p
#379 [03:29] <GreyVulpine> truebattleaxe - Have you paid for an account?
#380 [03:29] <Wug> truebattleaxe: you do not need the verification email to play. if you havent received it and cannot play, payment was probably not successful
#381 [03:29] <Wug> :payment/stopped > truebattleaxe
#382 [03:29] <WugBot> truebattleaxe: (payment/stopped) Banks, credit card companies, etc. frequently stop minecraft purchases for your protection because they are international transactions. You may have to call your financial institution and ask that they approve the transfer.
#383 [03:29] <WugBot> truebattleaxe: (payment/stopped) If you're not sure what to say, tell them: "I would like to make an international purchase and payment is being declined. How would I go about approving the purchase?"
#384 [03:30] <JNZ> I had my payment stopped because they labeled it as an international gambling syndicate.
#385 [03:30] <JNZ> BoA freaks the hell out.
#386 [03:30] * Patze [Patze@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#387 [03:30] <truebattleaxe> i have to pay to play?
#388 [03:31] <truebattleaxe> i did not know that
#389 [03:31] <Scott> BoA doesn't give me issues.
#390 [03:31] <Wug> truebattleaxe: to play premium? yes
#391 [03:31] <Scott> Try calling customer care, JNZ.
#392 [03:31] <JNZ> Scott: Well, I don't make a lot of card purchases.
#393 [03:31] <JNZ> So they were like "It's unusual!!!!!111"
#394 [03:31] <truebattleaxe> there's no "free" version
#395 [03:31] <Scott> And they're right :P
#396 [03:31] <JNZ> Yeah, true. I mean, they've stopped fraudulent charges before.
#397 [03:31] <Wug> JNZ: the big things: are checking by ip is impractical because of the issues with local ips, and minimal changes to the current authentication server would be optimal
#398 [03:32] <Scott> They are probably being overly careful right now.
#399 [03:32] <JNZ> Scott: Any particular reason?
#400 [03:32] <Wug> it is currently suited to check by a pair of numbers
#401 [03:32] <Scott> There was a big security breach at a payment processing company recently
#402 [03:32] <Scott> A lot of cards were stolen
#403 [03:32] <JNZ> Wug: If you want to write down the things you want in a scheme and email it to me or something, that'd be really cool.
#404 [03:32] <JNZ> I'm on webchat right now, no logs and well... our discussion was all over.
#405 [03:32] <Wug> do you frequent this network
#406 [03:33] <JNZ> No.
#407 [03:33] <Wug> do you frequent other networks
#408 [03:33] <Wug> your name seems familiar
#409 [03:33] <JNZ> QuakeNet, but I webchat everywhere right now.
#410 [03:33] <JNZ> I'm adenning or JayNZ on QuakeNet. Usually I hang out in #C#.
#411 [03:33] <Scott> "Global Payments, a little-known third-party processor of credit-card transactions, has admitted that its security defenses were breached by hackers, leaving more than one million customers of Visa, MasterCard, and other companies vulnerable to fraud."
#412 [03:34] <Scott> This is small compared to the 2008 breach though.
#413 [03:34] <Scott> Over 130 million cards were stolen then. D:
#414 [03:35] <Wug> sounds like that time with the psn
#415 [03:36] <DiskDaemon> Wasn't that the one where they were failing to follow their own security standards, such as encryption of database data?
#416 [03:37] <JNZ> Even with encrypted databases, the attack would have likely been successful.
#417 [03:37] <JNZ> Since you know, in most RDBMS you can disable encryption and rebuild the DB.
#418 [03:37] <JNZ> Or export it with encryption off.
#419 [03:37] <JNZ> PCI-DSS compliance would've saved their asses, though.
#420 [03:38] <Scott> You can't encrypt everything.
#421 [03:38] <JNZ> Well, you can. But it's silly to do so.
#422 [03:39] <JNZ> My new startup is dealing with payment processing on its own. PCI-DSS is pretty rad but a pain to comply with. Also, dealing with transactions is easy but requires more hardware.
#423 [03:39] <JNZ> You need several physical servers for remote logging, auditing, and servers dedicated to saying "That's fine. Keep going."
#424 [03:39] <Scott> The company I work for doesn't handle payments nor we do record any payment information.
#425 [03:39] <Scott> And I'm glad.
#426 [03:40] <Scott> Well, we store transaction IDs but that's pretty much useless.
#427 [03:40] <JNZ> Yeah.
#428 [03:40] <JNZ> I recently broke ties with PayPal for processing the random card I get for personal stuff.
#429 [03:41] <JNZ> They charged someone, told me it was reversed by their bank but it was just caught up in a fraud check, and then crazy shit went down.
#430 [03:41] <JNZ> Then refused to give me my balance when I closed my account, heh.
#431 [03:50] * tyteen4a03 [tyteen4a03@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#432 [04:05] * xTwilight [xTwilight@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#433 [04:06] * cosmicvoyager [cosmicvoyager@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#434 [04:11] * Morrolan|away [Morrolan|away@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#435 [04:15] * asnoehu [asnoehu@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#436 [04:25] * Keltinray [Keltinray@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#437 [04:28] * `Lee` [`Lee`@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#438 [05:03] * |_ocke [|_ocke@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#439 [05:06] * Wejq_ [Wejq_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#440 [05:20] * Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#441 [05:20] <Gurkenglas> Is the MC login server down?
#442 [05:22] * Keltinray [Keltinray@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#443 [05:22] <GreyVulpine> !login
#444 [05:22] <lemon-rev> hm
#445 [05:22] <lemon-rev> kinda odd i loged in not even 5 mins ago
#446 [05:25] * Elspuddy [Elspuddy@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#447 [05:26] <Elspuddy> hi, what are the specs for runing a minecraft server ? i know its as mutch ram a posabale.
#448 [05:27] <GreyVulpine> Depends on how many people will be on concurrently, whether you're running a vanilla or modded server with plugins, and if you're hosting it for yourself or having it hosted for you
#449 [05:28] <DiskDaemon> Is it normally 100MB per person?
#450 [05:28] <GreyVulpine> Roughly, yes
#451 [05:28] <DiskDaemon> This may help - http://canihostaminecraftserver.com/
#452 [05:29] <Elspuddy> well about 4-5 people and it's going to hostes at a proper data center
#453 [05:29] <Elspuddy> and that side i tryed last night dose not tell me all i need to know
#454 [05:30] <Gurkenglas> I used MCNostalgia to downgrade to 1.2.3, but now I want to upgrade back. MCNostalgia said I do that by forcing an update while logging in, but the login server is down. Is there another way to upgrade back up to 1.2.5?
#455 [05:30] <GreyVulpine> Gurkenglas - No, wait for the login server to be back up
#456 [05:31] <GreyVulpine> Minecraft doesn't take advantage of multi-core systems, as it is mainly single threaded. It takes roughly 100 megs of RAM per concurrent player (usage will spike over upon initial loading and creation of new chunks through exploration), and settle down upon idle activity.
#457 [05:31] <GreyVulpine> Since you'll be hosting it at a datacenter, I'll pass on the network usage stats.
#458 [05:32] <Elspuddy> but how fast of a cpu will i need ?
#459 [05:32] <GreyVulpine> Faster the better.
#460 [05:33] <GreyVulpine> The number of cores is not as important as the speed at which one core is. Any modern CPU will do for a server of your size
#461 [05:34] <Elspuddy> so a Dual Core AMD Opteron 270 2.0Ghz with 4 gig ram will do ?
#462 [05:34] <GreyVulpine> That'll do fine.
#463 [05:36] <Elspuddy> exelent, thanks :)
#464 [05:37] * Calinou [Calinou@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#465 [05:43] <Elspuddy> one other question(s) do you give plug in help in here ?
#466 [05:44] <GreyVulpine> We do not. Anybody's free to help out on plugin questions, but we usually direct people to #bukkit or other channels
#467 [05:44] <Gurkenglas> !login
#468 [05:44] <Elspuddy> thanks i'l try that channell first :)
#469 [06:20] <Gurkenglas> !login
#470 [06:21] <Gurkenglas> You'd think Mojang has enough money for a working login server
#471 [06:21] <GreyVulpine> Of course, because money makes things not break..
#472 [06:27] * `Lee` [`Lee`@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#473 [06:29] * Ignorama [Ignorama@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#474 [06:32] * Keltinray [Keltinray@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#475 [06:45] * NN_Rui [NN_Rui@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#476 [06:46] <NN_Rui> Hello can someone help me?
#477 [06:46] * nimrod [nimrod@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#478 [06:49] <NN_Rui> i have installed the mod shaders and my chat now doenst close, so i cant play, i alreade have unistailed minecraft, Java and made a restore point and the problem still here. can someone help me plz?
#479 [06:50] * Iguana [Iguana@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#480 [06:51] * hachque [hachque@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#481 [06:52] <GreyVulpine> ??> NN_Rui forceupdate
#482 [06:52] <VoxelHead> NN_Rui: (forceupdate) You may need to reinstall the locally installed files that Minecraft puts into place.
#483 [06:52] <VoxelHead> NN_Rui: (forceupdate) To do so, start Minecraft, press 'Options' (above the 'Login' button), Press 'Force update!', then press 'Done', and login to Minecraft.
#484 [06:52] <NN_Rui> i already have done that
#485 [06:53] <GreyVulpine> ??> NN_Rui win/reinst
#486 [06:53] <VoxelHead> NN_Rui: (win/reinst) You may need to reinstall the locally installed files that Minecraft puts into place.
#487 [06:53] <VoxelHead> NN_Rui: (win/reinst) To do so, press your Windows+R keys, type in %AppData% at the dialog, and press Enter. In the window that appears, open the .minecraft directory, and delete everything except for the saves directory that you see therein. Then, try running Minecraft again. Good luck!
#488 [06:54] * hachque [hachque@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#489 [06:54] <NN_Rui> i have already delected that, i have tryed more than 10 times delecting files and didnt work
#490 [06:55] * andrewxios [andrewxios@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#491 [06:56] <NN_Rui> maybe need to see the openGL?
#492 [06:56] <GreyVulpine> What exactly is the error?
#493 [06:56] <NN_Rui> the chat dont close
#494 [06:57] * Iguana [Iguana@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#495 [06:57] <GreyVulpine> Are you using some sort of third-party minecraft client?
#496 [06:57] <NN_Rui> no
#497 [06:58] <GreyVulpine> Could you give me a screenshot of this? Upload it to imgur.com?
#498 [06:59] <NN_Rui> ok wait a sec
#499 [06:59] * Valerie [Valerie@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#500 [07:01] <NN_Rui> http://i.imgur.com/zcN3i.jpg
#501 [07:01] <NN_Rui> there
#502 [07:03] * Halicarnassus [Halicarnassus@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#503 [07:06] <GreyVulpine> Are you sure you haven't bound the chat key to something else?
#504 [07:06] <NN_Rui> no, i installed a mod called Shaders and then the chat becomes crazy
#505 [07:07] <GreyVulpine> By deleting everything in .minecraft as well as redownloading the minecraft launcher, it should all be to normal
#506 [07:07] <NN_Rui> i already unistailed minecraft, Java and didnt work
#507 [07:08] <GreyVulpine> Don't know what else to give you here.
#508 [07:08] <NN_Rui> one friend told me maybe the mod changed the openGL.dll file
#509 [07:08] <GreyVulpine> I doubt it
#510 [07:08] <NN_Rui> so what can i do? :(
#511 [07:08] <GreyVulpine> Go yell at the mod's creator for help
#512 [07:09] <NN_Rui> ok thanks for the help
#513 [07:18] * Oerg866 [Oerg866@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#514 [07:21] * Toagac|gtfoCISPA [Toagac|gtfoCISPA@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#515 [07:38] * xTwilight [xTwilight@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#516 [07:49] * r0w [r0w@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#517 [08:09] * xTwilight [xTwilight@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#518 [08:09] * xTwilight [xTwilight@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#519 [08:52] * mollstam [mollstam@notlogged] has left #minecrafthelp
#520 [08:53] * mib_f5febf [mib_f5febf@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#521 [08:54] * mollstam [mollstam@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#522 [09:15] <sisk> I'm running a 1.2.5 server. The server seed got changed early on in the world, so there are some land mis-matches. But the problem is, we can't find any fortresses. The pearl leads, but at the indicated location there's no fortress. Would the changed seed and pearl-guidance lead to this problem?
#523 [09:18] <GreyVulpine> Yes, if the already generated land was made before fortresses were put in
#524 [09:19] <sisk> Does this mean there might not be any fortresses, or just that the pearl-guidance is wrong?
#525 [09:20] <GreyVulpine> The pearl guidance is both right, and wrong. It points to the spot to where a fortress would have been in that world, had the world generation been using the new seed to generate that chunk of land. However, if the chunk of land pre-dated the seed change, the fortress would not have spawned
#526 [09:21] <sisk> Is there a way to locate the fortresses without a pearl, even with a cheat? I have access to the 1.2.5 server files.
#527 [09:21] <GreyVulpine> If you travel far enough away, to the edge of the map, the pearl may be able to pick up on a fortress on newly generated land.
#528 [09:45] * Malvburo [Malvburo@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#529 [09:48] <Gurkenglas> There should be a forum that requires a paid minecraft account to log in on and that you are allowed to upload minecraft jars with or without mods and in other versions onto
#530 [09:52] * iChaos [iChaos@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#531 [09:55] * Kaito [Kaito@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#532 [09:58] * erroch [erroch@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#533 [10:12] * w [w@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#534 [10:14] * Tanjoodo [Tanjoodo@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#535 [10:27] <sisk> I'm looking for strongholds in my 1.2.5 SMP map. I have the world loaded in NBTExplorer. Is anyone familiar with how to locate a stronghold without an Eye?
#536 [10:40] <Kaito> Unlimited TNT, and a lot of time
#537 [10:49] <rymate1234> ^
#538 [10:50] * x [x@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#539 [11:00] * cfdpipeman [cfdpipeman@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#540 [11:03] * Kuth [Kuth@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#541 [11:10] <AlmtyBob> sisk: minecraft X-Ray: http://apocalyptech.com/minecraft/xray/
#542 [11:10] <AlmtyBob> set it to highlight stone bricks
#543 [11:11] <AlmtyBob> then fly around underground or slightly above ground looking for the highlighted blocks in a radius between 640 and 1152 from 0,0
#544 [11:11] <AlmtyBob> or copy the world to your single player game, hack in some eyes, and find one that way
#545 [11:12] * Dan [Dan@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#546 [11:16] * Lee{MC} [Lee{MC}@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#547 [11:21] * ronjn [ronjn@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#548 [11:22] * LonMcGregor [LonMcGregor@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#549 [11:22] * Eledore [Eledore@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#550 [11:24] * Calinou [Calinou@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#551 [11:24] * Keltinray [Keltinray@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#552 [11:27] * LonMcGregor [LonMcGregor@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#553 [11:27] * LonMcGregor [LonMcGregor@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#554 [11:27] * LonMcGregor [LonMcGregor@notlogged] has left #minecrafthelp
#555 [11:32] * mirokuQuestion [mirokuQuestion@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#556 [11:32] <mirokuQuestion> Hello,I am having some issues with my jre and minecraft. After "messing" with my java folders in my 64bit Windows 7, I got a launch4j error,so attempted to reinstall java6. This does not work and I get an error saying the wizard was interrupted. Any ideas?
#557 [11:34] * __EricReitz__ [__EricReitz__@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#558 [11:36] <mirokuQuestion> Anyone?
#559 [11:38] * Patze [Patze@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#560 [11:38] * x [x@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#561 [11:42] * x [x@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#562 [11:44] * Ignorama [Ignorama@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#563 [11:49] * greatman [greatman@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#564 [11:56] * x [x@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#565 [11:59] * Weird0 [Weird0@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#566 [12:12] * mib_qkou06 [mib_qkou06@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#567 [12:15] <Pete94> Hello guys. I know who "Herobrine" is and what he do. But do I can only see / find him if I play Online, or do I can find him if I play Offline?
#568 [12:20] * peru [peru@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#569 [12:20] * rymate1234 [rymate1234@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#570 [12:21] <Calinou> you can't.
#571 [12:21] <Calinou> even though Herobrine is a registered account with his skin, he never plays.
#572 [12:22] <Calinou> if you see him on a server, then the server is probably on offline mode
#573 [12:22] <Calinou> and no. it doesn't appear in singleplayer
#574 [12:22] <Pete94> thank you.... dare I really want to met him xD
#575 [12:23] * w [w@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#576 [12:29] * z [z@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#577 [12:32] * Booty_notebook [Booty_notebook@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#578 [12:39] * HaltingState [HaltingState@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#579 [12:44] * WhereIsMySpoon [WhereIsMySpoon@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#580 [12:54] * HaltingState [HaltingState@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#581 [13:06] * Epicofficial [Epicofficial@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#582 [13:09] * PitTux_64 [PitTux_64@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#583 [13:10] <Epicofficial> Hello there, I've still got an issue about reset password, although I've post my problem and I've used this following link http://help.mojang.com/customer/portal/emails/new I've waited almost 48 hours and there's no e-mail received to my e-mail address. I've checked junk/spam and inbox still empty. If there's possible to solve this problem manual.
#584 [13:10] <Epicofficial> I'll be glad to solve it manual and sending a random password to my e-mail address: epicoffical@live.com for the following account: epicofficial
#585 [13:13] * Cookies [Cookies@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#586 [13:14] * think [think@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#587 [13:15] * PitTux_64 [PitTux_64@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#588 [13:18] <Epicofficial> .
#589 [13:19] <Dan> Epicofficial, they are getting though a lot of e-mails and they are backed logged a few months
#590 [13:20] <Epicofficial> Hmm's, I've seen all my e-mail addresses. Anyway does this situation take longer then I thought?
#591 [13:23] * PitTux_64 [PitTux_64@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#592 [13:25] <Boreeas> Epicofficial: Dan pretty much said it, it can take a couple of days/weeks/month
#593 [13:26] <Epicofficial> Alright then I'll wait ^^
#594 [13:26] <Boreeas> Also, we can't really help you with account issues here, so you don't need to post your email address and accountname ;)
#595 [13:27] <Epicofficial> It suppose be a help for minecraft users.
#596 [13:28] <Epicofficial> Like a live chat, where people can get support for their issue.
#597 [13:28] <Dan> more towards the server/client of minecraft
#598 [13:28] * PitTux_64 [PitTux_64@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#599 [13:28] <Epicofficial> Well isn't there a suggestion box or something close to that?
#600 [13:30] * z_ [z_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#601 [13:31] * x [x@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#602 [13:38] <Dan> e-mail
#603 [13:38] <Epicofficial> my e-mail?
#604 [13:39] <Dan> no by e-mail
#605 [13:39] <Epicofficial> oh
#606 [14:08] * aphax [aphax@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#607 [14:09] <aphax> is it possible to somehow enable anti-aliasing in minecraft without seams appearing between blocks?
#608 [14:20] <DopeGhoti> ??+ linux/noexec|Don't ever mount /tmp with the noexec flag if you want to run 3D programs with NVIDIA drivers.
#609 [14:28] * aikaramba [aikaramba@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#610 [14:28] * mib_l2xb3s [mib_l2xb3s@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#611 [14:30] * iChaos [iChaos@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#612 [14:30] * neen [neen@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#613 [14:35] * neen [neen@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#614 [14:48] * T|minus [T|minus@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#615 [14:52] * Contex [Contex@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#616 [15:05] * Gathorisx [Gathorisx@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#617 [15:06] <Gathorisx> hello?
#618 [15:06] <Gathorisx> i have a question, if you install optifine
#619 [15:06] <Gathorisx> after forge does forge work?>
#620 [15:07] <Gathorisx> because it says so in the topic
#621 [15:07] <Gathorisx> wtf
#622 [15:07] <Gathorisx> im stupid
#623 [15:19] * musashiaharon [musashiaharon@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#624 [15:22] * Cookies [Cookies@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#625 [15:33] <Gurkenglas> Are spawn coords the same on each ssp map?
#626 [15:37] * hachque [hachque@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#627 [15:44] * Tonux [Tonux@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#628 [15:49] <musashiaharon> I am trying out (classic) Minecraft for the first time, but all I get is a black screen!
#629 [15:54] * DarkNoddy [DarkNoddy@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#630 [16:01] * Thrae [Thrae@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#631 [16:04] * iChaos [iChaos@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#632 [16:05] * cosmicvoyager [cosmicvoyager@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#633 [16:07] <Gurkenglas> Why is minecraft using over 50% of my CPU even though it is paused?
#634 [16:15] <musashiaharon> How many CPUs do you have?
#635 [16:15] <musashiaharon> or cores?
#636 [16:22] * zkxs [zkxs@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#637 [16:25] * sisk [sisk@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#638 [16:29] * Sun7zu [Sun7zu@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#639 [16:39] * Dan [Dan@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#640 [16:40] * WildCraze [WildCraze@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#641 [16:58] * andrewxios [andrewxios@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#642 [17:01] * Ryladine [Ryladine@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#643 [17:01] * Kaito [Kaito@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#644 [17:27] * herp [herp@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#645 [17:27] <herp> plawks halp my mine craft iz bork
#646 [17:29] * nimrod [nimrod@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#647 [17:30] <bork> yall are lame
#648 [17:36] <Nipper> look whos talking.
#649 [17:37] <Boreeas> Almost got me, bork
#650 [17:37] <Boreeas> But it was a little too over the top
#651 [17:42] <bork> Boreeas: I have never once been called out before
#652 [17:42] <bork> congratulations, youre the first
#653 [17:43] <bork> next time I'll use the word ur're
#654 [17:43] <bork> if I dont set off every troll radar within 200 miles I will have failed my mission
#655 [17:43] <Boreeas> Nah, I probably wouldn't even have noticed you if it wasn't for the +o mode change
#656 [17:52] <bork> Boreeas: you're killing me here
#657 [17:53] <Boreeas> ;kick bork s/ll/kk/
#658 [17:53] * WugBot kicked bork from #minecrafthelp (Reason: ork :s/ll/kk/)
#659 [17:53] * bork [bork@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#660 [17:53] <Boreeas> <3
#661 [17:53] * Zalgo [Zalgo@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#662 [18:06] * oldtopman [oldtopman@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#663 [18:09] * cfdpipeman [cfdpipeman@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#664 [18:12] * sabesto [sabesto@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#665 [18:17] * WildCraze [WildCraze@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#666 [18:18] * Omega_Guardian [Omega_Guardian@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#667 [18:39] * _EricReitz_ [_EricReitz_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#668 [19:20] * Finamenon [Finamenon@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#669 [19:32] * Ryladine [Ryladine@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#670 [19:32] * Wahrheit [Wahrheit@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#671 [19:32] * Wejq_ [Wejq_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#672 [19:33] * ronjn [ronjn@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#673 [19:37] * nimrod[A] [nimrod[A]@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#674 [19:38] * Wejq|irssi [Wejq|irssi@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#675 [19:42] * _EricReitz_ [_EricReitz_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#676 [19:58] * gerzel [gerzel@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#677 [20:15] * Morrolan|away [Morrolan|away@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#678 [20:18] * wug_ [wug_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#679 [20:18] <wug_> HALP HALP MY MINECRAFT NO WORKY
#680 [20:18] <wug_> PLIS PLAWKS PLIS
#681 [20:19] <wug_> HOW DO I FIX
#682 [20:19] <lemon-rev> wug_ stop useing caps
#683 [20:19] * GreyVulpine kicks Wug
#683 [20:19] <lemon-rev> lol
#684 [20:19] <wug_> I have to be so obvious its ridiculous
#685 [20:19] <lemon-rev> wug_ what is wrong with your game
#686 [20:19] <DiskDaemon> it no workey, as he said :)
#687 [20:19] <wug_> lemon-rev, ?_?
#688 [20:20] <wug_> I was here earlier trolling away
#689 [20:20] <lemon-rev> lol, i just meant explane what your doign with minecraft and why it might not work, waht are you getting what are you seeing
#690 [20:20] <wug_> my nickname was "bork"
#691 [20:20] <wug_> I said something redonkulous like
#692 [20:21] <wug_> "pliz halp my minecraft iz derp how fix"
#693 [20:21] <wug_> Boreeas called me out ONLY because chanserv opped me for no reason
#694 [20:21] <wug_> ;y people forget the wug rule
#695 [20:21] <WugBot> people y u forget the wug rule ლ(ﾟдﾟლ)
#696 [20:21] <lemon-rev> wug_ have you played mc before ?
#697 [20:21] <wug_> lemon-rev, yeah, once or twice
#698 [20:22] <lemon-rev> wug_ so when was the last time you played it ?
#699 [20:22] <wug_> something like last week
#700 [20:22] <wug_> are you for real
#701 [20:22] <lemon-rev> yes,
#702 [20:22] <DiskDaemon> this is taking a premise to it's illogical conclusion
#703 [20:22] <lemon-rev> wug_ have you added any mods ?
#704 [20:22] <wug_> GreyVulpine, please explain to lemon-rev what's wrong with this picture
#705 [20:23] * GreyVulpine prefers to duct tape lemon-rev to the ceiling fan and turn it on full.
#705 [20:23] <lemon-rev> ahahahahha
#706 [20:23] * wug_ flips the 240V switch
#706 [20:23] <nekronuke> is this where you get free minecraft?
#707 [20:23] * lemon-rev grabs on to GreyVulpine while spinning so i can fling him off into the distance
#707 [20:23] <wug_> nekronuke, omg yes
#708 [20:24] <nekronuke> how do
#709 [20:24] <wug_> let me divine a gift code for you with magic
#710 [20:24] <wug_> try...
#711 [20:24] <nekronuke> Want free.
#712 [20:24] <wug_> 47fg : 39vq : jw4f
#713 [20:24] <nekronuke> K
#714 [20:24] <nekronuke> Brb
#715 [20:24] <nekronuke> Amg
#716 [20:24] <wug_> if its too long or too short pad it with random crap
#717 [20:25] <nekronuke> I added a fyoo qs and it werked
#718 [20:25] <nekronuke> Omg
#719 [20:25] <wug_> lemon-rev, apparently I'm a minecraft oracle
#720 [20:25] <wug_> want a free account
#721 [20:25] <wug_> I'll sell you one for $10
#722 [20:25] <lemon-rev> bah
#723 [20:25] <lemon-rev> if your useing a keygen then i dont care
#724 [20:25] <nekronuke> Omg so awesome
#725 [20:25] <wug_> lemon-rev, who am I
#726 [20:26] <nekronuke> lemon-rev: i've owned minecraft since beta 1.2
#727 [20:26] <lemon-rev> who gives a rotten tomato :P
#728 [20:26] <nekronuke> I like to troll mc channels
#729 [20:26] * clarjon1 [clarjon1@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#730 [20:26] * wug_ is 2 seconds from laughing uncontrollably
#730 [20:26] <wug_> lemon-rev, type wu and hit tab a few times
#731 [20:26] <wug_> you might notice a correlation of sorts
#732 [20:26] <nekronuke> TO #MINECRAFT
#733 [20:27] <DiskDaemon> whatever you guyz tell me to do it dozen't work. You guyz suck
#734 [20:27] <lemon-rev> and i hang out on that channel bah
#735 [20:27] <DiskDaemon> ^ irony
#736 [20:27] <wug_> DiskDaemon, delete meta-inf
#737 [20:27] <wug_> and system64
#738 [20:27] <wug_> and system128
#739 [20:27] <DiskDaemon> and system32 :)
#740 [20:27] <wug_> and all of them up to system65536
#741 [20:35] <DopeGhoti> so.. how long before someone releases a working DCPU-16 in Minecraft?
#742 [20:36] <DiskDaemon> What about Minecraft within a DCPU-16?
#743 [20:36] <DiskDaemon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uViEhLNJ_8Y
#744 [20:37] <DopeGhoti> I'd rather see a DCPU-16 port of DF
#745 [20:43] * B4TTL3W0RN [B4TTL3W0RN@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#746 [20:46] * B4TTL3W0RN [B4TTL3W0RN@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#747 [20:47] <B4TTL3W0RN> This isn't a minecraft question but how do I join my minecraft servers irc chat?
#748 [20:47] <GreyVulpine> Do you know what IRC network it's on, and what channel it is?
#749 [20:47] <B4TTL3W0RN> Ummm I think I do but how do I join it
#750 [20:48] <GreyVulpine> If it is on this network, try: /join #channelname
#751 [20:48] <B4TTL3W0RN> It says you may not register when I do it what's that mean?
#752 [20:49] <GreyVulpine> Huh?
#753 [20:49] <GreyVulpine> What channel are you joining?
#754 [20:50] <B4TTL3W0RN> I got it thanks :)
#755 [20:50] <B4TTL3W0RN> Lol I tried it again I forgt the # sign
#756 [21:00] <ShaRose> oh yeah Wug why did you want the new protocol to be as similar as possible to the old one?
#757 [21:04] <wug_> ShaRose, I dont, but the mojang does
#758 [21:05] <wug_> because it requires less twiddling with the auth server, and therefore less downtime
#759 [21:17] <GreyVulpine> !join #minecraft
#760 [21:21] * bloxgate [bloxgate@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#761 [21:21] * bloxgate [bloxgate@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#762 [21:21] * bloxgate [bloxgate@notlogged] has left #minecrafthelp
#763 [21:21] * Lady_Edea [Lady_Edea@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#764 [21:22] <Lady_Edea> Hello, is anyone there?
#765 [21:22] <GreyVulpine> Nope
#766 [21:22] <Lady_Edea> lol
#767 [21:22] <Lady_Edea> ok, you are going to groan, and hate me, but i need some help trying to set up a Multiplayer Server on my PC XD
#768 [21:23] <GreyVulpine> Okay... what have you done so far?
#769 [21:23] <Lady_Edea> as far as i am aware, i have done EVERYTHING XD
#770 [21:23] <Lady_Edea> i downloaded the minecraft multiplayer software
#771 [21:24] <Lady_Edea> and i can access the server, on the computer that it is made on (if that makes sense)
#772 [21:24] <GreyVulpine> But nobody can access it from outside.
#773 [21:24] <Lady_Edea> yup
#774 [21:24] <GreyVulpine> You are most likely running this from a Home PC, and is behind a home router. You need to do port forwardintg
#775 [21:24] <GreyVulpine> forwarding*
#776 [21:24] <Lady_Edea> i tried going into the router, and setting up port forwarding?
#777 [21:25] <Lady_Edea> and i followed all the steps all across the internet lol
#778 [21:25] <GreyVulpine> Got teamviewer?
#779 [21:25] <Lady_Edea> teamviewer?
#780 [21:25] <JNZ> Wug: You never emailed me damn it :p
#781 [21:25] <Lady_Edea> i dont know what that is?
#782 [21:25] <Lady_Edea> lol
#783 [21:25] <GreyVulpine> ?? teamviewer
#784 [21:25] <VoxelHead> teamviewer: Teamviewer is remote access software, which enables other people to, with your permission, access your computer remotely and attempt to perform troubleshooting and diagnostics.
#785 [21:25] <VoxelHead> teamviewer: Teamviewer's website is here: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
#786 [21:26] <Lady_Edea> ok d'ling it now lol
#787 [21:26] <Lady_Edea> i think my problem has been around a while, and not found any solutions yet
#788 [21:27] <Lady_Edea> am using a Sky Sagem F@st 2504 router
#789 [21:28] <Lady_Edea> ok, i've installed teamviewer
#790 [21:28] <GreyVulpine> PM me the ID and password. Use /msg GreyVulpine
#791 [21:29] <Lady_Edea> did that work?
#792 [21:29] <GreyVulpine> Yes, one moment
#793 [21:30] <Lady_Edea> ok lol thank you
#794 [21:31] <GreyVulpine> Alright. I will take control of your mouse.
#795 [21:31] <Lady_Edea> ok
#796 [21:36] <GreyVulpine> ;check Lady_Edea
#797 [21:36] <WugBot> Unable to connect to address: 02d8eab2.bb.sky.com:25565 (Timed out)
#798 [21:40] <GreyVulpine> ;check Lady_Edea
#799 [21:40] <WugBot> Unable to connect to address: 02d8eab2.bb.sky.com:25565 (Timed out)
#800 [21:41] <GreyVulpine> ;check Lady_Edea
#801 [21:41] <WugBot> Unable to connect to address: 02d8eab2.bb.sky.com:25565 (Timed out)
#802 [21:42] * SeySayux [SeySayux@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#803 [21:43] * Allison [Allison@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#804 [21:46] <GreyVulpine> ;check Lady_Edea
#805 [21:46] <WugBot> 02d8eab2.bb.sky.com:25565 seems to host a minecraft server: Working? (0/5)
#806 [21:46] <GreyVulpine> Looks to be working, will try and connect from here.
#807 [21:49] <Lady_Edea> all sorted
#808 [21:49] * GreyVulpine tips hat
#808 [21:49] <Lady_Edea> i hadn't thought of vipre tbh
#809 [21:50] <Lady_Edea> i was running port scans etc all saying that the ports were still blocked hahaha
#810 [21:50] <GreyVulpine> No worries. There's just a gazillion different security software out there. Your port forwarding was fine.
#811 [21:51] <Lady_Edea> thanks for sorting it all out ^_^ my brother is twelve and autistic, and loves minecraft, but doesn't like other players online lol
#812 [21:51] * GreyVulpine nods.
#812 [21:51] <ShaRose> [Wednesday 10:35:00 pm] <wug_> because it requires less twiddling with the auth server, and therefore less downtime
#813 [21:51] <Lady_Edea> so was trying to sort out a mini server so that i could at least play with him and he was talking to someone ^_^
#814 [21:51] <ShaRose> that's iffy at best :P
#815 [21:51] <ShaRose> that's iffy at best :P
#816 [21:51] * THE [THE@notlogged] has left #minecrafthelp
#817 [21:52] <ShaRose> besides, it's gonna need both running at the same time for a while
#818 [21:52] <ShaRose> for servers that don't update
#819 [21:52] <ShaRose> and the launcher is going to need to update too
#820 [21:52] <ShaRose> and all third party ones
#821 [21:52] <ShaRose> etc etc
#822 [21:52] <ShaRose> besides afaik they use a git system
#823 [21:52] <ShaRose> if it blows up revert
#824 [21:53] <ShaRose> and even THEN they have a version parameter for the login
#825 [21:54] <ShaRose> they could easily add the 'extra' support, test that out with updated launchers that use a beta version of minecraft, etc etc
#826 [21:54] <ShaRose> login protocol 14
#827 [21:54] * Ryladine [Ryladine@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#828 [22:08] <ShaRose> oh and just in case it didn't ping you Wug
#829 [22:08] <ShaRose> seeing as you didn't respond
#830 [22:08] <ShaRose> :P
#831 [22:20] <ShaRose> OH YEAH
#832 [22:21] <ShaRose> JNZ last night I was thinking more about that idea you had hmah hashing a nonce with the password. I realized that has one major issue: if the server is storing passwords as salted hashes it'd be impossible to do without the server having to tell the client what that password's salt is.
#833 [22:22] <JNZ> ShaRose: I never mentioned anything about hashing a nonce with a password
#834 [22:22] * gerzel [gerzel@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#835 [22:22] <JNZ> Not that I can recall anyway
#836 [22:22] <JNZ> It was late, Wug never sent me an email too :p
#837 [22:22] <ShaRose> you said have the client generate a nonce, then HMAC SHA512 the nonce with the password as the key, then encrypt the nonce and the hmac hash with trent's public key
#838 [22:23] <JNZ> Sounds ok
#839 [22:24] <JNZ> And actually it requires the server to have the password, not a hash of it
#840 [22:24] <ShaRose> hmac spec hashes the password if it's oversized
#841 [22:24] <JNZ> So?
#842 [22:25] <ShaRose> there's nothing against having it hashed anyways
#843 [22:25] <ShaRose> but yeah
#844 [22:25] <JNZ> It wouldn't surprise me if it's not hashed right now.
#845 [22:25] <ShaRose> I'm hoping it's hashed and salted
#846 [22:25] <JNZ> It's probably hashed.
#847 [22:25] <ShaRose> if it was me I'd have a unique salt per user too
#848 [22:25] <JNZ> You mean, if you're intelligent, that's what you do :p
#849 [22:26] <JNZ> I enforce that constraint in my database
#850 [22:26] <ShaRose> :P
#851 [22:26] <JNZ> PasswordSalt is unique constrained, PasswordHash is unique constrained
#852 [22:26] <ShaRose> really we need the info from mollstam himself on what the server actually has :P
#853 [22:26] <JNZ> Pretty inefficient to have the hash unique constrained. I've got to take that out.
#854 [22:26] <ShaRose> yeah
#855 [22:26] <ShaRose> I was thinking that
#856 [22:27] <ShaRose> if the salt is unique why make the salted hash unique too? :P
#857 [22:27] <JNZ> Because clearly you want to avoid collisions lol
#858 [22:27] <ShaRose> lol
#859 [22:27] * _EricReitz_ [_EricReitz_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#860 [22:27] <JNZ> But yeah, scheduled for removal and rebuilding now.
#861 [22:28] <ShaRose> I wish I knew enough C to be comfortable in it
#862 [22:28] <ShaRose> I'd probably give a shit making an implementation of the cert idea with gwan using GMPlib for the signatures
#863 [22:28] <ShaRose> that'd be crazy fast
#864 [22:29] <JNZ> gmp is pretty great
#865 [22:29] <ShaRose> mmm
#866 [22:29] <JNZ> I did some of the i7 assembly optimizations yay
#867 [22:29] <JNZ> It's why I bought an i7 when they first came out.
#868 [22:30] <ShaRose> still have a phenom II here
#869 [22:30] <JNZ> Which is a pretty great proc.
#870 [22:30] <ShaRose> mmm
#871 [22:30] <JNZ> I love AMD and how long their processors stay in the race
#872 [22:34] <ShaRose> I wish I had money
#873 [22:34] <ShaRose> I'd buy 2-3 of those 3tb harddrives on sale on newegg
#874 [22:34] <ShaRose> :(
#875 [22:40] <JNZ> I go to Fry's now.
#876 [22:40] <JNZ> They undercut internet prices, so it's pretty cool
#877 [22:40] <ShaRose> Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 3TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" for 159.99 CAD
#878 [22:41] <JNZ> Probably fairly slow
#879 [22:41] <JNZ> If not, then that's quite a nice deal
#880 [22:41] <ShaRose> I've always liked the barracudas tbh
#881 [22:42] <JNZ> Pretty sure one of my drives that has a running time of like 5 years is a seagate
#882 [22:42] <JNZ> 80 GB drive, back from the days when that was a great thing
#883 [22:42] <ShaRose> mmm
#884 [22:42] <ShaRose> mine are starting to get flaky but I don't have the money for replacements :(
#885 [22:42] <JNZ> Newegg had some good SSD deals for a while
#886 [22:43] <JNZ> $100 for 128 GB
#887 [22:43] <JNZ> Vertex 3s and such
#888 [22:43] <ShaRose> yeah
#889 [22:43] <JNZ> I picked one up. Sadly, my board is not supporting the super fastness of it
#890 [22:43] <ShaRose> I'm running a vertex 2 now
#891 [22:43] <JNZ> The seek time though my god, is where it's at
#892 [22:44] <ShaRose> I stuck my skyrim install on it just for that purpose
#893 [22:45] <JNZ> I called BS when someone said having an SSD made web browsing faster
#894 [22:45] <JNZ> I was surprised to see that it really did matter.
#895 [22:45] <ShaRose> maybe if it's writing to the cache
#896 [22:46] <JNZ> I guess Chrome and Firefox do that pretty a lot
#897 [22:46] <ShaRose> mmm
#898 [22:52] * Evixion [Evixion@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#899 [22:54] * Hamster [Hamster@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#900 [22:58] * SeySayux [SeySayux@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#901 [23:00] * advcomp2019_ [advcomp2019_@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#902 [23:07] * aikaramba [aikaramba@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#903 [23:21] * Finamenon [Finamenon@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#904 [23:22] * nimrod [nimrod@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#905 [23:34] * Dan [Dan@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#906 [23:40] * rushworld [rushworld@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp
#907 [23:48] * cosmicvoyager [cosmicvoyager@notlogged] has joined #minecrafthelp